Regarding Arsenal, my point was pick either the Champions League or the Premier League and go for one of them, not both. I didn’t even mention the FA Cup in that because for big clubs like Arsenal, it’s a secondary trophy. Arsenal is too inexperienced and thin, and I hesitate to say young because that’s not quite true, to try and complete a double or a treble, and both you and Ty (BillEShears) identified that as well.

I disagree that Lehmann is as good as Almunia, but I would agree that the difference between them is rather slight.

I do also think the Sagna/Clichy vs Hoyte/Traore difference is substantial. Arsenal does not play with many wingers, and need those overlapping fullbacks. Traore can give the side that, but cannot match Clichy in ability to track back and help defensively. This was readily apparent in the match. Hoyte, conversely, does not offer the same ability going forward.

The place I have to give my most strenuous disagreement, however, is your Gilberto-Flamini comparison. Flamini has been on the form of his life this season, and has been an absolute terrier. His speed and tenacity around the pitch have been invaluable in protecting the Arsenal defense while Sagna/Clichy come forward, and has also allowed Fabregas to play a bit further forward. Gilberto, if he were playing at the same level he was last season, would be a wash with Flamini. But this season there has been no comparison. Gilberto has been slow and clumsy in tackles. While experience surely rests on his side, there has been no comparison in their form throughout this season. This impression was backed up by taking a look through the player ratings at the Arsenal blog Goodplaya for recent matches the two have played. Last five player ratings (starts):

Flamini – 7 / 7.5 / 8.5 / 7.5 / 7
Gilberto – 4 / 5.5 / 7 / 5.5 / 6

Not exactly conclusive evidence of course (what is in football?), but it does provide some prima facie support for my own impressions watching the two of them play this season.

Finally, regarding the Cup of Nations, I think it is certainly relevant since the claim was that it was nearly a full strength side. Training for a week after traveling to and playing on a different continent does not bring players back up to their former level of comfort in the side, fluency with their teammates and fitness. Players typically have a dip in form following international duty, and both these players were involved right down to the final weekend.

Anyway, again, I don’t think it is an excuse for the side. But since the first choice 11 for Arsenal is:

Almunia / Sagna / Gallas / Toure / Clichy / Hleb / Fabregas / Flamini / Rosicky / van Persie / Adebayor

and the lineup put out there on Saturday was different at 6 of those positions (five if we replace Eduardo with van Persie since van Persie has been out for so long), I think they weren’t close to full strength.

Incidentally, I think this is exactly the reason why the later claim by your co-author BillEShears was spot on – Arsenal are spread too thin right now for three cup competitions.

Lehmann and Almunia are basically on the same level, which is subpar. I don’t consider Lehmann to be a backup in the traditional sense of the term because of his international experience with Germany and his club experience in Germany and England. Remember, Lehmann started for Arsenal since he joined the club in 2003 and Almunia only gained the permanent job this year because Lehmann was injured.

I’ll give you your point about Arsenal playing their second-choice fullbacks; Hoyte is a step below Sagna and Traore isn’t at Clichy’s level yet; though he will be in a couple of years.

I don’t consider there to be any dropoff when you put Gilberto Silva in the lineup instead of Flamini; I think that’s a wash and while they both offer some different qualities, they by and large carry out the same role. Silva is much more experienced than Flamini, and that can make up for the fact that he’s getting up there in age and has lost a step.

Fair point about Bendtner and Adebayor; Adebayor is on spectacular form right now. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again though: I think Bendtner is going to be a better player than Adebayor and if I had to pick one of those two to keep and get rid of the other, I’d take Bendtner because of his potential.

You can’t make the point about those two players having been out of the side due to African Cup of Nations duty. It would be one thing if those players were out of the side due to injury and hadn’t been playing competitive matches because they weren’t fit, but that’s not the case. Toure and Eboue were playing high-level, international games. They had been back in training at Arsenal for a while, so I don’t buy that point.

As I said though, it’s a decent argument and that’s just my opinion on the matter. Thanks for the feedback.

Arsenal was playing their backup keeper, two backup fullbacks, a backup striker (two if you still consider van Persie the other starting striker), a backup central midfielder, and a central defender and a right wing player who have not played for Arsenal since before the ACN.

By my count, they played with 2 players who are not in the first team (Hoyte and Traore), 3 players who are first team backups (Bendtner, Lehman and Gilberto) and 2 players who have been out of the side for a month.

Again, this is not an excuse. You are absolutely right that there is no excuse for a 4-0 drubbing. But the only way to make sense of the “full strength” comment is if we turn the clock back to when Gilberto and Lehman were starters.

it may be suicidal from an advertising perspective, but an fa cup final with two minnows would be great for the game and for the cup itself.

honestly, who wouldnt want to watch a bristol rovers/barnsley final for novelties sake??